{"id":1071,"date":"2019-01-06T01:44:57","date_gmt":"2019-01-06T01:44:57","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/generic.wordpress.soton.ac.uk\/skywritings\/?p=1071"},"modified":"2019-01-06T01:44:57","modified_gmt":"2019-01-06T01:44:57","slug":"entrevue-de-etienne-harnad-par-elias-levy","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/generic.wordpress.soton.ac.uk\/skywritings\/2019\/01\/06\/entrevue-de-etienne-harnad-par-elias-levy\/","title":{"rendered":"Entrevue de \u00c9tienne Harnad par Elias L\u00e9vy"},"content":{"rendered":"

[English version follows below]<\/i>
\n<\/a>\u00ab\u00a0J\u2019ai profond\u00e9ment honte d\u2019avoir \u00e9t\u00e9 v\u00e9g\u00e9tarien pendant presque cinquante ans. Pendant ces cinq d\u00e9cennies, j\u2019ai v\u00e9cu dans un d\u00e9ni auto-impos\u00e9. Quand on me demandait, \u00ab\u00a0est-ce que \u00e7a te d\u00e9range si nous mangeons de la viande\u00a0?\u00a0\u00bb, je m\u2019empressais de r\u00e9pondre poliment, \u00ab\u00a0non, je suis d\u00e9mocrate inv\u00e9t\u00e9r\u00e9, vive la libert\u00e9\u00a0!\u00a0\u00bb Voil\u00e0 l\u2019exutoire hypocrite auquel j\u2019avais recours pour \u00eatre poli\u00a0\u00bb, nous confie en entrevue le militant pro-animal \u00c9tienne Harnad, membre actif de l\u2019Association qu\u00e9b\u00e9coise pour le droit des animaux<\/i> (KARA<\/a>).<\/p>\n

Avant de devenir v\u00e9gane, ce sp\u00e9cialiste reconnu en Sciences cognitives n\u2019avait pas confront\u00e9 le degr\u00e9 de souffrance que l\u2019industrie du lait faisait subir aux vaches. Il rationalisait le probl\u00e8me en se disant\u00a0: <\/p>\n

\u00ab Je sais qu\u2019en pratique on fait mal aux vaches pour avoir leur lait, mais contrairement \u00e0 la viande qu\u2019on ne pourrait avoir en principe sans leur faire de mal, on pourrait en principe avoir le lait sans faire souffrir les vaches.\u00a0\u00bb Aujourd\u2019hui, v\u00e9gane depuis 6 ans, il trouve odieux de s\u2019\u00eatre dit qu\u2019il profitera du mal en pratique<\/i> car \u00e7a aurait \u00e9t\u00e9 possible sans mal en principe<\/i>. <\/p>\n

\u00ab\u00a0Une vache, dont la dur\u00e9e de vie est d\u2019environ\u00a020 ans normalement, dit Harnad, est soumise quotidiennement \u00e0 un processus effroyable d\u2019extraction de son lait qui, apr\u00e8s quatre ann\u00e9es, rend son organisme d\u00e9bilit\u00e9 et dysfonctionnel. Elle est mise enceinte artificiellement, on lui injecte des hormones et des antibiotiques pour \u00ab\u00a0soulager\u00a0\u00bb les graves infections qui ruinent\u00a0ses mamelles \u2026 On provoque chez elle une angoisse extr\u00eame en lui arrachant ses veaux le lendemain de son accouchement pour ensuite les massacrer \u00e0 leur tour. Et, suite \u00e0 quatre ann\u00e9es d\u2019agonie, on finit par la massacrer elle aussi, une fois devenue compl\u00e8tement invalide et incapable de tenir sur ses jambes. C\u2019est un processus de destruction sans-c\u0153ur et impardonnable d\u2019un animal. Ce sera ma honte \u00e9ternelle d\u2019avoir pendant tant d\u2019ann\u00e9es n\u00e9glig\u00e9 et rationnalis\u00e9 ces horreurs \u00e9videntes. Je n\u2019ai rien appris de neuf\u00a0: je le savais\u00a0d\u00e9j\u00e0 ; je l\u2019avais su tout au long de ma vie.\u00a0\u00bb<\/p>\n

N\u00e9 \u00e0 Budapest en 1945, \u00e0 la fin de la Deuxi\u00e8me Guerre mondiale, Harnad est issu des survivants de la Shoah<\/i>. Trente-sept membres de sa famille ont \u00e9t\u00e9 d\u00e9port\u00e9s et extermin\u00e9s dans les camps de la mort nazis. Ses parents sont parvenus \u00e0 \u00e9chapper aux nazis en se cachant sous une fausse identit\u00e9 dans une ville hongroise qui passa sous la houlette de la Slovaquie \u00e0 la fin de la guerre, Rimasz\u00e9cs<\/a>. Il avait trois ans quand sa famille \u00e9migra au Canada.<\/p>\n

Dipl\u00f4m\u00e9 de l\u2019Universit\u00e9 McGill et d\u00e9tenteur d\u2019un doctorat en Psychologie de l\u2019Universit\u00e9 Princeton, Harnad est professeur en Sciences cognitives au d\u00e9partement de Psychologie de l\u2019Universit\u00e9 du Qu\u00e9bec \u00e0 Montr\u00e9al (UQAM). Il est aussi professeur adjoint en informatique \u00e0 l\u2019Universit\u00e9 de Southampton, en Grande-Bretagne.<\/p>\n

Harnad a \u00e9t\u00e9 le r\u00e9dacteur en chef de plusieurs publications acad\u00e9miques, dont actuellement la revue scientifique Animal Sentience<\/a><\/i> (Sensibilit\u00e9 animale<\/i>), publi\u00e9e par la Humane Society<\/a> des \u00c9tats-Unis.<\/p>\n

\u00c0 chaque seconde, dit-il, 6\u00a0000 animaux terrestres sont tu\u00e9s pour la consommation humaine. Comparativement, deux humains meurent chaque seconde de causes naturelles, rappelle-t-il. Mais, \u00e0 l\u2019exception du nombre d\u00e9croissant des cultures de subsistance, ce massacre n\u2019est plus n\u00e9cessaire \u00e0 notre \u00e9poque, ni \u00e0 la survie ni \u00e0 la sant\u00e9 humaines.<\/p>\n

\u00ab\u00a0L\u2019humanit\u00e9 est arriv\u00e9e \u00e0 une situation monstrueuse en mati\u00e8re de traitement des animaux. Nous n\u2019avons pas le droit de devenir les complices silencieux de cet abominable g\u00e9nocide perp\u00e9tr\u00e9 contre les animaux. Le survivant de la Shoah ne peut tol\u00e9rer cette situation honteuse et d\u00e9gradante pour l\u2019humanit\u00e9. Abandonner les animaux \u00e0 leur sort funeste, c\u2019est trahir l\u2019une des valeurs fondamentales de l\u2019humanit\u00e9\u00a0: l\u2019obligation pour tous ceux qui (ainsi que leurs proches) sont en sant\u00e9 et en s\u00e9curit\u00e9 de venir en aide aux \u00eatres sensibles qui ne le sont pas. C\u2019est pourquoi je milite avec acharnement pour la d\u00e9fense des animaux, qui sont les \u00eatres souffrants les plus ab\u00eem\u00e9s sur la terre des hommes.\u00a0\u00bb<\/p>\n

Harnad part du principe que \u00ab\u00a0la majorit\u00e9 des hommes ne sont pas des psychopathes\u00a0\u00bb et que lorsqu\u2019ils auront pris conscience du fait que la souffrance des animaux n\u2019est pas seulement horrible mais aussi gratuite, pas n\u00e9cessaire, leur \u00ab\u00a0sens de la compassion primera avant tout\u00a0\u00bb.<\/p>\n

\u00c2g\u00e9 de 71 ans, Harnad n\u2019a pas mang\u00e9 de viande depuis l\u2019\u00e2ge de 17 ans. <\/p>\n

\u00ab\u00a0Je suis pourtant en parfaite sant\u00e9. C\u2019est un mensonge d\u2019affirmer qu\u2019un \u00eatre humain ne peut pas vivre sainement s\u2019il ne consomme pas de viande.\u00a0\u00bb<\/p>\n

En Isra\u00ebl, le militantisme pro-animal compte de plus en plus d\u2019adeptes, souligne-t-il.<\/p>\n

\u00ab\u00a0Aujourd\u2019hui, Isra\u00ebl compte le plus haut taux de personnes v\u00e9ganes au monde. Quatre \u00e0 cinq pour cent de la population isra\u00e9lienne est v\u00e9gane. Par ailleurs, en Isra\u00ebl, les associations d\u00e9fendant les droits des animaux sont parmi les plus actives au monde et organisent r\u00e9guli\u00e8rement des manifestations, tr\u00e8s m\u00e9diatis\u00e9es, devant les principaux abattoirs du pays.\u00a0\u00bb<\/p>\n

Par contre, ajoute-t-il, bon nombre de militants pro-animaux isra\u00e9liens ont opt\u00e9 pour une approche tr\u00e8s radicale. <\/p>\n

C\u2019est l\u2019activiste juif am\u00e9ricain Gary Yourovsky<\/a> qui a convaincu ses pairs isra\u00e9liens d\u2019adopter des m\u00e9thodes de militantisme tr\u00e8s muscl\u00e9es pour d\u00e9fendre les animaux. Harnad a des r\u00e9serves concernant cette approche. <\/p>\n

\u00ab\u00a0Gary Yourovsky a maintes fois d\u00e9clar\u00e9\u00a0: \u00ab\u00a0j\u2019ai honte que les Isra\u00e9liens et les Juifs, qui ont subi dans leur chair, au cours de l\u2019Histoire, l\u2019atroce exp\u00e9rience d\u2019avoir \u00e9t\u00e9 trait\u00e9s comme du b\u00e9tail – quand les nazis les entassaient dans des trains en direction des camps de la mort – continuent, sans la moindre g\u00eane, de manger de la viande, produit d\u2019un \u00ab\u00a0autre g\u00e9nocide\u00a0\u00bb perp\u00e9tr\u00e9 aujourd\u2019hui contre les animaux\u00a0\u00bb. Harnad poursuit\u00a0: \u00ab\u00a0Je ne trouve ni juste ni efficace de culpabiliser les Isra\u00e9liens ou les Juifs en particulier, et surtout pas les survivants de la Shoah.\u00a0Presque tous les membres de notre \u00e9sp\u00e8ce sont les complices dans ce crime des crimes. \u00bb<\/p>\n

Quel type d\u2019approche Harnad pr\u00e9conise-t-il\u00a0?<\/p>\n

\u00ab\u00a0Il y a, \u00e0 mon avis, d\u2019autres proc\u00e9d\u00e9s moins agressifs pour montrer au public les horreurs indicibles dont les animaux sont victimes quotidiennement. Par exemple, installer dans les fermes d\u2019\u00e9levage, les camions transportant du b\u00e9tail ainsi que les abattoirs des cam\u00e9ras cctv \u00e0\u00a0360 degr\u00e9s<\/a> qui fonctionneraient\u00a024 heures par jour et diffuseraient les vid\u00e9os sur Internet. Ces images effrayantes montrant l\u2019abominable souffrance inflig\u00e9e aux animaux auraient sensiblement plus d\u2019impact sur le public que juste les vigiles silencieuses de sensibilisation ou m\u00eame l\u2019adoption de principes abstraits visant \u00e0 prot\u00e9ger les animaux, mais sans pr\u00e9cisions quant \u00e0 leur mise en pratique concr\u00e8te. Les citoyens pourraient alors non seulement rapporter les infractions aux lois actuelles, mais ils deviendraient t\u00e9moins \u00e9galement des horreurs qui restent permises par la loi.\u00a0\u00bb <\/p>\n

Quelle est la position d\u2019\u00c9tienne Harnad face \u00e0 l\u2019\u00e9pineuse question de l\u2019abattage rituel des animaux\u00a0?<\/p>\n

\u00ab\u00a0Bien que je sois profond\u00e9ment ath\u00e9e, je respecte toutes les religions, \u00e0 condition bien s\u00fbr que celles-ci ne soient pas nocives et ne causent aucun type de souffrance<\/i>. Ma position est claire et cat\u00e9gorique\u00a0: \u00e0 l\u2019exception des conflits d\u2019int\u00e9r\u00eats vitaux (c\u2019est-\u00e0-dire, de survie ou de mort) il est immoral de tuer ou de faire mal \u00e0 un \u00eatre sensible, qu\u2019il soit humain ou animal. Les traditions religieuses qui valorisent les pratiques comme l\u2019esclavage, la mutilation et le sacrifice humain ou animal ne tombent pas sous l\u2019\u00e9gide de la libert\u00e9 de culte. Le droit, la\u00efc bien s\u00fbr, doit interdire tout ce qui cause la souffrance inutile d\u2019un \u00eatre humain ou animal. Je ne renie jamais mon identit\u00e9 juive\u00a0: pour moi c\u2019est une communaut\u00e9 non de foi mais de fatalit\u00e9, un pass\u00e9 (tragique), un pr\u00e9sent et un destin partag\u00e9s. Mais l’argument qu’on a le droit de causer de la souffrance sous l\u2019autorit\u00e9 de principes soi-disant \u00ab\u00a0sacr\u00e9s\u00a0\u00bb, prescrits dans le juda\u00efsme, le christianisme ou l\u2019islam, n\u2019a aucune validit\u00e9 \u00e0 mes yeux.\u00a0\u00bb<\/p>\n

D\u2019apr\u00e8s Harnad, le Qu\u00e9bec a fait un pas en avant (mais jusqu\u2019ici un pas purement formel) en mati\u00e8re de protection des animaux.<\/p>\n

\u00ab\u00a0Au Qu\u00e9bec, en\u00a02013, on a lanc\u00e9 un manifeste<\/a> pour que le statut des animaux dans le code civil soit modifi\u00e9, afin qu\u2019un animal ne soit plus consid\u00e9r\u00e9 comme un \u00ab\u00a0bien\u00a0\u00bb mais comme un \u00ab\u00a0\u00eatre dou\u00e9 de sensibilit\u00e9 ayant des imp\u00e9ratifs biologiques\u00a0\u00bb. La loi qu\u00e9b\u00e9coise a \u00e9t\u00e9 chang\u00e9e<\/a>. Mais malheureusement, cette modification abstraite apport\u00e9e au code civil qu\u00e9b\u00e9cois est encore insuffisante pour att\u00e9nuer les souffrances concr\u00e8tes subies par les animaux.\u00a0\u00bb<\/p>\n

En d\u00e9pit de cette volont\u00e9 politique, poursuit-il, les gens ignorent toujours ce que signifie concr\u00e8tement la souffrance inflig\u00e9e inutilement aux animaux. <\/p>\n

\u00ab\u00a0C\u2019est pour cela que j\u2019en appelle \u00e0 un recours aux nouvelles dispositions formelles ench\u00e2ss\u00e9es dans la loi qu\u00e9b\u00e9coise sur les droits des animaux pour contraindre les fermes d\u2019\u00e9levage, les camions transportant du b\u00e9tail et les abattoirs \u00e0 se doter de cam\u00e9ras cctv qui diffuseront sur Internet les diverses phases de l\u2019abominable processus d\u2019extermination des animaux, pour contr\u00f4ler tout d\u2019abord si les r\u00e8glements actuels (inad\u00e9quats) sont respect\u00e9s, mais aussi pour ainsi sensibiliser les citoyens en m\u00eame temps \u00e0 l\u2019\u00e9normit\u00e9 de l\u2019agonie animale qui demeure toujours cautionn\u00e9e par la loi actuelle. \u00bb<\/p>\n

\n

“I am deeply ashamed to have been a vegetarian for almost fifty years. During those five decades, I lived in self-imposed denial. When asked at a meal, \u2018Do you mind if we eat meat?\u2019 I hastened to reply politely, \u2018No, I am a confirmed democrat, long live liberty!\u2019 That is the hypocritical reply I used, to be polite,”<\/i> says pro-animal activist Stevan Harnad, an active member of the Quebec Association for Animal Rights (KARA<\/a>).<\/p>\n

Before becoming a vegan, this well-known specialist in cognitive science had not confronted the degree of suffering that the dairy industry inflicts on cows. He rationalized the problem by saying,<\/p>\n

“I know that in practice the cows and their calves are hurt to get their milk, but unlike meat, which one could not get in principle without harming them, one could in principle get the milk without causing the cows to suffer.\u201d <\/i>Today, vegan for 6 years, he finds it odious to have said that it\u2019s alright to benefit from harming in practice because it would have been possible without harm in principle.<\/p>\n

“A cow with a normal life span of about 20 yearsis subjected daily to a brutal process of milk extraction which, after four years, leaves her body debilitated and dysfunctional. She is artificially made pregnant regularly, injected with hormones and antibiotics to “relieve” the severes infections that ruin her udder … Forcibly inseminated, she undergoes extreme anguish repeatedly as her calves are torn from her the day after she gives birth, to be massacred in their turn soon after. And, after four years of this agony, she herself is massacred too, once she has become completely disabled and can no longer even stand on her legs. A lifelong process of heartless and unpardonable destruction of an innocent creature. It will be my eternal shame to have neglected and rationalized these obvious horrors for so many years. I did not learn anything new: I already knew it; I had known it throughout my life.”<\/i><\/p>\n

Harnad was born in Budapest in 1945, at the end of the Second World War, to survivors of the Shoah. Twenty-seven members of his family were deported and exterminated in the Nazi death camps. His parents managed to escape from the Nazis by hiding under a false identity in a Hungarian town that was transferred to Slovakia at the end of the war, Rimaszecs<\/a>. He was three when his family emigrated to Canada.<\/p>\n

A graduate of McGill University and a Ph.D. in Psychology from Princeton University, Harnad is a professor of Cognitive Science in the Department of Psychology at the Universit\u00e9 du Qu\u00e9bec \u00e0 Montr\u00e9al (UQAM). He is also an Adjunct Professor of Computer Science at the University of Southampton, Great Britain.<\/p>\n

Harnad has been the editor of several academic publications, including currently the scientific journal Animal Sentience<\/a>, published by the Humane Society of the United States<\/a>.<\/p>\n

\u201cEvery second,\u201d <\/i>he says, \u201c6,000 animals are killed for human consumption. By comparison, two humans die every second of natural causes. But, with the exception of the decreasing number of subsistence hunting cultures, this massacre is no longer necessary in our time, neither for human survival nor for health.\u201d<\/i><\/p>\n

“Humanity has arrived at a monstrous situation in our treatment of nonhuman animals. We have no right to become the silent accomplices of this wanton genocide perpetrated against other sentient species. How can a survivor of the Shoah tolerate this state of affairs, so wretched for the victims, so shameful for humanity? To abandon animals to this heartless, needless fate is to betray one of the most fundamental of human values: the obligation of all of us — who (together with our loved ones) are safe, fed, sheltered and healthy — to come all who are not. This is why I am fighting to defend animals, the victims of by far the most human-inflicted suffering on the planet. “<\/i><\/p>\n

Harnad assumes that “the majority of humans are not psychopaths” and that once they realize that the suffering of animals is not only grotesque but also gratuitous, unnecessary, their “sense of compassion will come to the fore”.<\/p>\n

Aged 71, Harnad has not eaten meat since the age of 17.<\/p>\n

“I am, however, in perfect health. It is quite simply a lie that a human being cannot live a full and healthy life without eating meat.”
\n<\/i>
\nIn Israel, pro-animal militancy is becoming increasingly popular, he points out.<\/p>\n

“Today, Israel has the highest proportion of vegans in the world. Four to five percent of the population is vegan. In Israel, animal rights associations are among the most active in the world and regularly organize high-profile events in front of the country’s main slaughterhouses.”<\/i><\/p>\n

\u201cSome Israeli pro-animal activists,\u201d<\/b> he adds, \u201chave opted for a very radical approach under the influence of the Jewish-American animal-activist Gary Yourovsky<\/a>, who has advocated rather aggressive forms of militancy to defend animals.\u201d<\/i> Harnad has reservations about this approach.<\/p>\n

“Gary Yourovsky has repeatedly declared: \u2018I am ashamed for the Israelis and Jews — who have themselves undergone the unspeakable experience of being \u201ctreated like cattle\u201d when the Nazis pressed them onto the trains headed for the death camps \u2013 that they nevertheless continue, without the slightest remorse, to eat meat, the product of that \u2018other genocide\u2019 being perpetrated against animals today\u2019.\u201d<\/i> Harnad responds: “I find it neither fair nor effective to lay the blame for the horrors on the Israelis or the Jews in particular — and especially not on the survivors of the Shoah. Almost all members of our species are accomplices in this crime of crimes.”<\/i><\/p>\n

What approach does Harnad recommend?<\/p>\n

“In my opinion, there are other, unaggressive ways of showing the public the truth about the agony inflicted on animals daily. For example, everywhere were animals are bred, confined transported or slaughtered, install 360-degree audiovisual CCTV cameras<\/a> that operate 24 hours a day and broadcast and store the videos on the Internet to crowd-source public inspection and monitoring by citizens. These terrible images showing the indescribable suffering inflicted on animals could have significantly more impact on sensitizing the public than just conducting silent (or noisy) protest vigils or even adopting abstract legal principles declaring that animals are sentient beings with biological needs that need to be met, but without any details as to how to apply, monitor and enforce the principles in practice. With the online CCTV data, citizens could not only report offenses against current laws, but they would also become witnesses to the horrors that are still being permitted by those laws.”
\n<\/i>
\nWhat is Harnad\u2019s position on the thorny question of the ritual slaughter of animals?<\/p>\n

“Although I am profoundly atheist, I of course respect religious freedom — but only on condition that it does not cause the suffering or sentient (feeling) beings. My position is clear and categorical: with the exception of conflicts of vital (that is, life-or-death) interest, it is immoral to kill or hurt a sentient being, human or animal. Religious traditions that call for or allow practices such as slavery, mutilation, or human- or animal-sacrifice do not fall under the aegis of freedom of religion. The law (secular of course) must forbid everything that causes the unnecessary suffering of a human or animal. I never deny my Jewish identity: for me it is a community not of faith but of fate, a past (tragic), a present and a shared destiny. But the argument that one has the right to cause suffering under the authority of so-called “sacred” principles, whether prescribed in Judaism, Christianity or Islam, has no validity in my eyes.<\/i>”<\/p>\n

According to Harnad, Quebec has taken a step forward (but so far only a formal step) in the area of animal welfare.<\/p>\n

“In Quebec, in 2013, a public manifesto<\/a> demanded that the legal status of animals be changed from \u201cgoods\u201d to \u2018sentient beings with biological imperatives.\u2019 Two years later the Civil Code of Quebec was accordingly formally revised to reflect this<\/a> — but this abstract change in principle alone is unfortunately not enough to alleviate the actual suffering that humans inflict animals.”<\/i><\/p>\n

“This is why Quebec\u2019s new law needs to be put into practice by requiring all sites where \u2018livestock\u2019 is bred, confined, used, transported or slaughtered to stream and store their CCTV data openly on the Web, continuously monitoring all the phases of the abominable process of extermination. This will not only make it possible for crowd-sourced public inspection to ensure that today\u2019s (inadequate) regulations concerning the victims\u2019 \u2018biological imperatives\u2019 are being complied with, but it will at the same time open the eyes and hearts of all citizens to the enormity of the animal agony that is still being allowed under current regulations. Then the next step is in the public\u2019s hands.”
\n<\/i><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

[English version follows below] \u00ab\u00a0J\u2019ai profond\u00e9ment honte d\u2019avoir \u00e9t\u00e9 v\u00e9g\u00e9tarien pendant presque cinquante ans. Pendant ces cinq d\u00e9cennies, j\u2019ai v\u00e9cu dans un d\u00e9ni auto-impos\u00e9. Quand on me demandait, \u00ab\u00a0est-ce que \u00e7a te d\u00e9range si nous mangeons de la viande\u00a0?\u00a0\u00bb, je m\u2019empressais de r\u00e9pondre poliment, \u00ab\u00a0non, je suis d\u00e9mocrate inv\u00e9t\u00e9r\u00e9, vive la libert\u00e9\u00a0!\u00a0\u00bb Voil\u00e0 l\u2019exutoire hypocrite … <\/p>\n

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